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西藏暴动,比较客观的一个报道
作者:feebe
发表时间:2008-03-20
更新时间:2008-03-20
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::: 栏目 :::
英文西藏资料
汉奸
无耻媒体
暴动事实
亲身经历
网友在行动
经典西藏暴动分析
西藏video
阴谋与虔诚﹕西藏骚
反向歧视

发信人: scidem (scidem), 信区: ChinaNews
标 题: 关于西藏暴动,比较客观的一个报道(强烈推荐,申精)
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Mar 20 20:57:53 2008)

关于西藏暴动,比较客观的一个西方报道

简单介绍一下,James Miles是来自《经济学人》的记者。他是在暴动发生的两天前获
得官方的采访许可证的。没想到,两天后西方拉萨就发生了暴动事件,而他也成了在拉
萨的唯一一名有采访许可证的西方权威媒体记者。另外Jame Miles曾经为经济学人报道
过19年前的一起事件,那次报道也奠定了他的事业基础。

这一次他拉萨回到英国后,CNN对他进行了采访。其采访原文如下。阅读全文后,我觉
得他作为一个记者是很客观公正的。他拥有第一手资料,他也只说他看到的和他经历的
实际情况,而不会像其他并没有获得第一手资料的西方记者一样凭空想象或者夸大其词
。强烈建议大家看一下全文,相信对整个事件有一个更加客观的认识。另外参考看一下
《经济学人》的其他相关文章,因为对此事件有一个更加全面的认识。

我想简单总结一下采访中提到的最重要的几点。

1. 记者James Miles在拉萨暴乱的采访过程中一直没有受到来自官方的阻挠。这一点,
甚至连记者本身都很惊讶。记者猜想,这与北京做出的奥运会有何大关系。新闻也会在
这段时期相对自由。而记者本人离开的原因并不是官方的驱逐,而是记者的采访证期限
到了。这一点和BBC所报道的“最后一名外国记者被驱逐”的新闻大相径庭。这也显示
BBC在这条的新闻处理上是夸大事实甚至违背事实的。

2.James Miles亲眼看到,亲身经历的事实是,藏族人的这次暴动基本上是针对汉族人
和回族人的商店和餐馆。汉族人拥有大部分的商铺,回族人掌握着当地的肉类市场。参
与暴动的藏族人把藏族人开的商店或者餐馆用白色的哈达标记。然后把剩下的商店抢光
,砸光。很多抢来的东西也被堆在街上烧光。甚至记者本人都觉得非常的unpleasant(
非常的不舒服),记者也看到甚至当地的藏族人也被这样的情景惊吓到了。

值得一提的是,很多汉族人和回族人在暴动一开始的时候就逃走了,但是晚逃一步的汉
族或回族人的生命都受到很大的威胁。藏族人向那些滞留的汉族人投掷石块。甚至记者
亲眼看到一个触目惊心的情景。记者看到一群人像一个10岁左右大小的儿童扔石块。记
者看不下去了,就跑到那些扔石块的藏族人的面前进行阻止。

3.James Miles并没有看到中国安全保卫人员Security force和藏族暴乱分子之间的正
面冲突。James Miles看到的是那些藏族人身上都戴着传统的藏族刀。但是没有亲眼看
到他们使用刀,或者用刀威胁其他人。但是在采访过汉族人后,他知道藏族人确实用刀
威胁过汉族人。

而且令记者惊讶的是,官方没有一开始就介入其中,而是没有任何行动(inaction)。
安全保卫人员也始终保持克制,到后来会偶尔放一枪,但很明显是为了警告那些人停止
暴动。troops with rifles that they occasionally let off with single shots,
apparently warning shots,in order to scare everybody back into their homes
and put an end to this.记者分析可能的原因还是奥运会的压力,因为如果一开始就
介入其中,肯定会发生流血冲突事件。如果是这样的话,那么会对正在举办奥运会的中
国将非常不利。所以官方一直对暴动活动保持克制,但后果就是汉族人的众多商铺和生
意被毁被砸被抢。这一点和中国官方的报道是非常一致的。

另外,记者看到的唯一一次,是在拉萨旧城区的中心地带。一群藏族人用石块扔向安全
保卫人员Security force。安全保卫人员用催泪瓦斯驱散藏族人。但安全保卫人员并没
有快速前进。而是一直保持克制,非常偶尔的时候,会用催泪瓦斯。然后那些藏族人会
撤退到小箱子里面去。记者提到这次安全保卫人员的克制显然是用心思考过的,官方更
愿意这次时间会自己淡化下来。

But for a long time, just with occasional, with the very occasional round of
tear gas, which would send and I could see this, people scattering back
into these very, very, narrow and winding alleyways. What I did not hear was
repeated bursts of machine gun fire, I didn't have that same sense of an
all out onslaught of massive firepower that I sensed here in Beijing when I
was covering the crushing of the Tiananmen Square protests in June, 1989.
This was a very different kind of operation, a more calculated one, and I
think the effort of the authorities this time was to let people let off
steam before establishing a very strong presence with troops, with guns,
every few yards, all across the Tibetan quarter. It was only when they felt
safe I think that there would not be massive bloodshed, that they actually
moved in with that decisive force.

4.关于死亡人数。作为唯一一位在拉萨的西方记者,记者提到他会不时的听到一些关于
小范围的流血冲突的传闻(rumor),但是他只能依据他看到的实际情况报道。结论就
是,有可能,有几个汉族人在暴力活动中被杀,同时也有可能,有几个藏族人在暴乱活
动中被杀。但记者也承认并没有第一手的证据支持这样的结论,也不可能得到死亡人数
。所以中国官方所说的十几个汉族人被杀害应该是死亡人数的下限,至于并没有亲历暴
动事件的外国媒体或组织所声称的一百多人,则几乎肯定没有事实根据的是被夸大的上
限。在这一点上BBC的“一百人死亡”的新闻标题应该是有偏倚的,不准确的。

But I can do no more really on the basis of what I saw then say there was a
probability that some ethnic Chinese were killed in this violence, and also
a probability that some Tibetans, Tibetan rioters themselves were killed by
members of the security forces. But it's impossible to get the kind of
numbers or real first hand evidences necessary to back that up.

5.关于拉萨汉族人对于这次事件的反应。记者James Miles说,他看到在暴动最激烈发
生过后,有一些汉族人回来看他们的商店。记者看到,很多汉族人流着泪在废墟里面捡
剩下来的东西。记者和那些汉族人都对废墟的景象感到非常的震惊。即使在警戒线被划
出来之后,旧城区里面的暴乱分子还是自由的抢劫和放火,官方依然站在后方保持克制
状态。很多在当地生活了很多年的汉族人都对这样的事件感到完全的震惊。他们从来没
想到过藏族和汉族的紧张关系会到这个地步。当地汉族人都非常担心,都说他们也许以
后会离开拉萨。这也许会给西藏的经济带来非常严重的影响。而且当地旅游业会受到非
常大的打击。甚至有人担心,中国的西藏铁路会成为暴乱分子的一个目标。

On the second day we came back to the shops and I saw them picking through
the wreckage, tears in their eyes. They were astonished, as I was, at the
lack of any security presence on the previous day. was only during the
night at the end of the first day that this cordon was established around
the old Tibetan quarter. But even within it, for several hours afterwards,
people were still free to continue looting and setting fires, and the
authorities were still standing back.

另外文中还有很多其他的信息。我就不一一列举了。

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/

Transcript: James Miles interview on Tibet


BEIJING, China (CNN) -- James Miles, of The Economist, has just returned
from Lhasa, Tibet. The following is a transcript of an interview he gave to
CNN.


James Miles

Q. How easy was it for you to see what you wanted to see?

A. Well remarkably so, given that the authorities are normally extremely
sensitive about the presence of foreign journalists when this kind of
incident occurs. I was expecting all along that they were going to call me
up and tell me to leave Lhasa immediately. I think what restrained them from
doing that, one very important factor in this, was the thoughts of the
Olympic Games that are going to be staged in Beijing in August. And they
have been going out of their way to convince the rest of the world that
China is opening up in advance of this. I think they probably didn't want me
there but they knew that I was there with official permission, and one
thing they've been trying to get across over the last few months is that
journalists based in Beijing can now get around the country more freely than
they could before. Of course Tibet is a special example. I've been a
journalist in China now for 15 years altogether. This is the first time that
I've ever got official approval to go to Tibet. And it's remarkable I think
that they decided to let me stay there and probably they felt that it was a
bit of a gamble. But as the protests went on I think they also probably
felt that having me there would help to get across the scale of the
ethnically-targeted violence that the Chinese themselves have also been
trying to highlight.

Q. What you say you saw corroborates the official version. What exactly did
you see?

A. What I saw was calculated targeted violence against an ethnic group, or I
should say two ethnic groups, primarily ethnic Han Chinese living in Lhasa,
but also members of the Muslim Hui minority in Lhasa. And the Huis in Lhasa
control much of the meat industry in the city. Those two groups were
singled out by ethnic Tibetans. They marked those businesses that they knew
to be Tibetan owned with white traditional scarves. Those businesses were
left intact. Almost every single other across a wide swathe of the city, not
only in the old Tibetan quarter, but also beyond it in areas dominated by
the ethnic Han Chinese. Almost every other business was either burned,
looted, destroyed, smashed into, the property therein hauled out into the
streets, piled up, burned. It was an extraordinary outpouring of ethnic
violence of a most unpleasant nature to watch, which surprised some Tibetans
watching it. So they themselves were taken aback at the extent of what they
saw. And it was not just targeted against property either. Of course many
ethnic Han Chinese and Huis fled as soon as this broke out. But those who
were caught in the early stages of it were themselves targeted. Stones
thrown at them. At one point, I saw them throwing stones at a boy of maybe
around 10 years old perhaps cycling along the street. I in fact walked out
in front of them and said stop. It was a remarkable explosion of simmering
ethnic grievances in the city.

Q. Did you see other weapons?

A. I saw them carrying traditional Tibetan swords, I didn't actually see
them getting them out and intimidating people with them. But clearly the
purpose of carrying them was to scare people. And speaking later to ethnic
Han Chinese, that was one point that they frequently drew attention to. That
these people were armed and very intimidating.

Q. There was an official response to this. In some reporting, info coming
from Tibetan exiles, there was keenness to report it as Tiananmen.

A. Well the Chinese response to this was very interesting. Because you would
expect at the first sings of any unrest in Lhasa, which is a city on a
knife-edge at the best of times. That the response would be immediate and
decisive. That they would cordon off whatever section of the city involved,
that they would grab the people involved in the unrest. In fact what we saw,
and I was watching it at the earliest stages, was complete inaction on the
part of the authorities. It seemed as if they were paralyzed by indecision
over how to handle this. The rioting rapidly spread from Beijing Road, this
main central thoroughfare of Lhasa, into the narrow alleyways of the old
Tibetan quarter. But I didn't see any attempt in those early hours by the
authorities to intervene. And I suspect again the Olympics were a factor
there. That they were very worried that if they did move in decisively at
that early stage of the unrest that bloodshed would ensue in their efforts
to control it. And what they did instead was let the rioting run its course
and it didn't really finish as far as I saw until the middle of the day on
the following day on the Saturday, March the 15th. So in effect what they
did was sacrifice the livelihoods of many, many ethnic Han Chinese in the
city for the sake of letting the rioters vent their anger. And then being
able to move in gradually with troops with rifles that they occasionally let
off with single shots, apparently warning shots, in order to scare
everybody back into their homes and put an end to this.

Q. Would be false to suggest there was heavy-handed security approach?

A. Well this was covering a vast area of the city and I was the only foreign
journalist, at least accredited, to ... who was there to witness this. It
was impossible to get a total picture. I did hear persistent rumors while I
was there during this rioting of isolated clashes between the security
forces and rioters. And rumors of occasional bloodshed involved in that. But
I can do no more really on the basis of what I saw then say there was a
probability that some ethnic Chinese were killed in this violence, and also
a probability that some Tibetans, Tibetan rioters themselves were killed by
members of the security forces. But it's impossible to get the kind of
numbers or real first hand evidences necessary to back that up.

Q. Form any sense of where it would go from here?

A. Well I think they now have a huge problem on their hands. When I left
Lhasa yesterday the city was still in a state of effectively Martial Law.
They've been bending over backwards this time not to declare martial law as
they did in 1989 after the last major outbreak of anti-Chinese unrest in
Lhasa. This time they have not used that term and yet the conditions now in
Lhasa are pretty much the same as they were in 1989 under martial law.
Officials say there are no soldiers, no members of the People's Liberation
Army involved in this security operation. And yet I saw numerous, many
military vehicles, military looking vehicles with telltale license plates
covered up or removed. And also many troops there whose uniforms were
distinctly lacking in the usual insignia of either the police or the riot
police. So my very, very strong suspicion is that the army is out there and
is in control in Lhasa. And removing that security given the way Tibetans
are now focusing on the Olympics as a window of opportunity, removing that
security now I think would be something they would be very, very cautious
about. And yet there are enormous pressures on them to do so. Coming up to
the Olympic torch carrying ceremony in Lhasa in June. That is one obvious
event they will want the world to see and they will want the world to see
that Lhasa is normal. But I think getting to that stage will be enormously
tricky given the depth of feeling in Lhasa itself among Tibetans.

Q. Did you actually see clashes between security forces and Tibetan
protesters?

A. Well what I saw and at this stage, the situation around my hotel which
was right in the middle of the old Tibetan quarter, was very tense indeed
and quite dangerous so it was difficult for me to freely walk around the
streets. But what I saw was small groups of Tibetans, and this was on the
second day of the protests, throwing stones towards what I assumed to be,
and they were slightly out of vision, members of the security forces. I
would hear and indeed smell occasional volleys of Tear gas fired back. There
clearly was a small scale clash going on between Tibetans and the security
forces. But on the second day things had calmed down generally compared with
the huge rioting that was going on...on the Friday. And the authorities
were responding to these occasional clashes with Tibetans not by moving
forward rapidly with either riot police and truncheons and shields, or
indeed troops with rifles. But for a long time, just with occasional, with
the very occasional round of tear gas, which would send and I could see this
, people scattering back into these very, very, narrow and winding alleyways
. What I did not hear was repeated bursts of machine gun fire, I didn't have
that same sense of an all out onslaught of massive firepower that I sensed
here in Beijing when I was covering the crushing of the Tiananmen Square
protests in June, 1989. This was a very different kind of operation, a more
calculated one, and I think the effort of the authorities this time was to
let people let off steam before establishing a very strong presence with
troops, with guns, every few yards, all across the Tibetan quarter. It was
only when they felt safe I think that there would not be massive bloodshed,
that they actually moved in with that decisive force.

Q. At time you left, were Han Chinese moving freely back?

A. There were some on the Saturday morning. On the second day we came back
to the shops and I saw them picking through the wreckage, tears in their
eyes. They were astonished, as I was, at the lack of any security presence
on the previous day. It was only during the night at the end of the first
day that this cordon was established around the old Tibetan quarter. But
even within it, for several hours afterwards, people were still free to
continue looting and setting fires, and the authorities were still standing
back. And it was only as things fizzled out towards the middle of the second
day that as I say they moved in in great numbers. Ethnic Chinese in Lhasa
are now very worried people. Some who had been there for many, many years
expressed to me their utter astonishment that this had happened. They had no
sense of great ethnic tension being a part of life in Lhasa. Now numerous
Hans that I spoke to say that they are so afraid they may leave the city,
which may have very damaging consequences for Lhasa's economy, Tibet's
economy. Of course one would expect that ethnic Chinese would think twice
now about coming into Lhasa for tourism, and that's been a huge part of
their economic growth recently. And leaving Lhasa, I was sitting on a plane
next to some Chinese businessmen, they say that they would normally come in
and out of Lhasa by train. But their fear now is that Tibetans will blow up
the railway line. That it is now actually safer to fly out of Tibet than to
go by railway. We have no evidence of Terrorist activity by Tibetans, no
accusation of that nature so far. But that is a fear that's haunting some
ethnic Han Chinese now.

Q. When you were told to leave, what were you told?

A. Well I had an 8-day permit to be in Lhasa. That permit began two days
before the rioting, on March 12, and was due to run out on March 19. My
official schedule was basically abandoned after a couple days of this. Many
of the places on my official itinerary turned out to be hotspots in the
middle of this unrest. They left me to my own devices. I was stopped by the
police at one point, taken to a police station. They made a few phone calls
and then let me go back out on the streets full of troops and police
carrying out the security crackdown. They insisted however that when my
permit did expire on the 19th that I had to leave. I asked for an extension
and they said decisively no.

Q. So you weren't expelled? It just ran out?

A. Well we're in a gray area here. Because in theory China has been opened
up to foreign journalists since January 2007, which means no longer, which
was the case before, do we have to apply for provincial level government
approval every time we leave Beijing for reporting. The official regulations
don't mention Tibet. But orally, officials have made it clear that Tibet is
an exception to these new Olympic rules and journalists who have made their
own way there, unofficially, both before this unrest and during it have
been caught or ... and expelled. Or those who have succeeded in making it
out without being detected have been criticized by the authorities for doing
so. So one could argue that yes I was expelled, if one looks at the
regulations they've announced which one could interpret as meaning we have
the freedom to be where we like. But in their interpretation, Tibet is an
exception and in their view they were being rather liberal towards me by
letting run to the end of my official permit.

Q. Is Dalai behind this?

A. Well we didn't see any evidence of any organized activity, at least there
was nothing in what I sensed and saw during those couple of days of unrest
in Lhasa, there was anything organized behind it. And I've seen organized
unrest in China. The Tiananmen Square protests in 1989 involved numerous
organizations spontaneously formed by people in Beijing to oppose, or to
call for more reform and demand democracy. We didn't see that in Lhasa.
There were no organizations there that ... certainly none that labeled
themselves as such. These accusations against what they call the Dalai Lama
clique, are ritual parts of the political rhetoric in Tibet. There is a
constant background rhetoric directed at the Dalai Lama and his supporters
in India. So it is not at all surprising that they would repeat that
particular accusation in this case. But they haven't come across, haven't
produced any evidence of this whatsoever. And I think it's more likely that
what we saw was yes inspired by a general desire of Tibetans both inside
Tibet and among the Dalai Lama's followers, to take advantage of this
Olympic year. But also inspired simply by all these festering grievances on
the ground in Lhasa.
--

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